[Interview] Toshihiro Kondo | Bringing One of Adol’s Lost Adventures Back to Life with Ys X: Nordics

“17 again!”

Thanks to a recent preview event in London, I had the chance to go hands-on with The Legend of Heroes: Trails Through Daybreak II and Ys X Nordics. I greatly enjoyed my time with both titles and it was a lot of fun getting to conduct my preview of each game, as part of our ongoing Game & Chat series, but there was even greater opportunity waiting for me.

Not only was I able to play two upcoming NIS America releases, but I was also able to meet Toshihiro Kondo himself, the President of Nihon Falcom and spend an hour with him and interpreter, Alan, to learn plenty about both Trails and Ys series of games.

With much discussed, it’s impossible to share the whole interview in just one written part, so please join us for Part 2, where we discuss the Ys series, Ys X: Nordics and more:

Toshihiro Kondo | Bringing One of Adol’s Lost Adventures Back to Life with Ys X: Nordics:

Miketendo64: From scenario writing, to directing and producing, your commitment to the series is commendable. Is it fair to assume you returned to serve as the scenario writer for Ys X: Nordics as well?

Toshihiro Kondo: Yes, so, essentially I had two roles. The first is to come up with the basic concept and development of the game itself. And one of the things about Ys X: Nordics is that It is an important title of being the 10th in the series and it’s a great opportunity to look at things and kind of start fresh.

One thing that we particularly looked at was the party system, which had come out in the previous few Ys games, to totally revamp that, and that’s what kind of gave way, he says, to the system that you now see plays, which is very different within Ys X. So he says all of these things that relate to how the game plays, the combat system, how all of that is arranged, is something that he directly led and worked on and gave direction for. In addition to that, yes, I also was the main scenario writer for Ys X.

Miketendo64: What was the decision-making process that led to creating a new Ys game with Norse inspirations? There’s no denying the two go hand in hand, but what was the moment that made you think, “we might have something here?”

Toshihiro Kondo: As you may be aware, the world of Ys is based on Europe and it’s in a place called Eritrea, it’s on the Eritrean continent, and just like in the real world, there’s various analogues to real-world locations, real-world powers, one of them being the Roman Empire, which is obviously spelt R-O-M-E-N, which is obviously based on the Roman Empire from our own real-world history.

And throughout the course of the Ys series so far, we’ve seen the Roman Empire extending its reach over various parts of this world. And just about up until now, up until Ys IX, every time something’s happened working on Ys games, it’s turned out like, oh, the Roman Empire is going to be behind it, they’re the bad guys. And so, taking a look at this world, what’s going on? We’ve only really depicted the southern part that’s controlled by the Roman Empire.

What’s going on in the northern part of this world? There has to be some kind of oppositional group to the Romans up there. So what are they? And, thinking about that, well, when you look at a map of our own world, when you look at the north, what do you think of? Well, you think of Vikings. And, at that time when I was kind of thinking about these things and going over them and thinking of, well, how can we portray the northern part of this world? I was also watching the Vikings Netflix series and so the two kind of came together.

Miketendo64: With recent Ys games becoming more action-focused and flowing smoothly thanks to their semi-open worlds, Ys has evolved since 1987. What would you say has been your key to success in terms of taking a JRPG series and keeping it relevant for 37 years?

Toshihiro Kondo: The most important and the first thing that we look at with an Ys game, and this starts for every single Ys game, is the action element.

This is the most important element. This comes first. And everything that comes after that, whether it be the story or the setting or all of these things, those are subject to this action element.

So what does this action element mean? Well, this means how fun it is to control Adol into play. A lot of the joy of Ys is that it feels so good to control and fight that even if you’re out there just kind of killing normal, small, nobody enemies, it’s so much fun and you get so involved and enthralled with it. And when you glance at the clock, you realize that hours have passed.

That’s the kind of thing that we go for. And so, if this is fun and if we’ve accomplished this, then that means the player is not going to be bored when they’re playing it. They’re going to enjoy it.

So because this informs everything that makes a Ys game a Ys game, it makes it fun and it means that it’s been able to continue for as long as it has. This is the core of what makes Ys.

When I first started working on the Ys game, the person that I learned how to make Ys games from said, the feeling of an Ys game when you’re playing it should be like you’re popping the air bubble droppers, and that feeling of you could do this for all day and you just love it and you get so into it is what we’re going for when we have folks play Ys.

From that, then we figure out the setting, what would be the most appropriate setting that we haven’t done before for this Ys game. So in this case, Ys X, you’ve got these islands and you’ve got this place called the Obelia Gulf that you’re able to explore on a ship and go from place to place. So this action feeling of like popping air bubbles mixed with a brand new setting every time that’s relevant and unique to it is kind of what makes it special. And in this case for Ys X, we have that.

Miketendo64: One of the biggest changes Ys X: Nordics has, is the removal of the party system, which is instead replaced by the Cross Action system. Not only does it feature a wider range of animations and skills thanks to having a focus on two characters over a party of six, but also enables a deeper character focus in terms of story and character personality. What other benefits have you noticed this gameplay feature has on Ys X: Nordics?

Toshihiro Kondo: This is more directly to the why of why we decided to do it this way. It became a two-party system versus what we were asking originally. But the idea was that when taking a look at starting Ys X, it was, well, what are some of the issues that we’ve encountered up until now?

And so one of those things that they were often told is that the graphics weren’t necessarily always the best for their games. They said, okay, so then how can we combat that? And one of the areas that they looked to was the party system, which had been implemented over the past few games.

Because, as you would expect, having a six-person party, a lot of time and resources needed to be put into specifically doing all of this. So they said, well, if we were able to pair this down to only two characters, that would mean that we could then focus on making the graphics better, which he says hopefully that you noticed when you played Ys X. You’ll see that the graphics have been improved.

However, just by doing that, there still has to be a reason that you only have two playable characters. And so, there has to be a story reason that there’s only two characters. And so they worked hard to make sure that the two characters that you are able to play as, there’s this very specific story reason for that that makes sense, where the party systems were implemented.

And so because they were able to have only two main characters, which was then able to allow them to kind of improve the graphics and everything around the graphics, that allows Ys X to stand out and to be different. And when they were thinking about this, they approached this from various angles to make sure that they were doing what would be best for the title. And so the end result was Ys X, and they feel that they accomplished that goal.

Also, within that too is that all of the resources we mentioned earlier, were able to go into Adol and Karja, and this goes beyond, obviously, there’s a story element, depicting their relationship, being able to do so much more because there’s just the two of them. But there’s also all those extra resources that can go into their animations, their movements, their skills, their move sets.

All these things get poured into it and a lot of these problems that we felt existed, were able to be solved by actually pairing down the two main characters to just Adol and Kaja here in Ys X. And it allowed them to actually have a level of originality as well, that differentiates it from what came before.

Miketendo64: Having gone from Ys IX: Monstrum Nox, which featured a 24-year-old-Adol to a 17-year-old, did you have to familiarise yourself with some of Adol’s earlier exploits to get yourself back into the thought process of a younger protagonist? 

Toshihiro Kondo: I took a lot of time and effort into studying what was in these old games, particularly. I took a look back at the original manual that was included with Ys I. It was a really big, thick manual that had a ton of information through it. I went through reading it, and what you glean from reading that is that we know that Adol came down, and he was on a journey somewhere. And we think that maybe, “Oh, he could have been on the journey to Esteria.”

But, that’s not necessarily the case, because we see that, because as he’s making his way down, there’s a conflict happening, which makes him divert. So, he has to divert to the west. And because he’s going for the sea, I said, “Well, maybe that actually could be the Obelia Gulf, which is depicted in Ys X.” A lot of care and time went into going back and looking at what Adol was originally doing and where he was going by focusing on what was included in this original adventure in the manual there.

Miketendo64: With Adol often appearing as a young talented swordsman, have there ever been discussions about a Ys game that casts an older Adol as its protagonist?

Toshihiro Kondo: Yeah, there absolutely is a desire to depict an older Adol, but the thing is, there are only things that can be done with a certain age limit on the character, that being a young Adol or an older Adol and with Adol, there’s this desire within us, because we have it, to depict him as an older person, as a more set adult man in that kind of environment.

But, in that situation, what would it be like? Maybe it would be at the point in Adol’s life where he has a disciple who travels along with him. So maybe the disciple turns out to be the main character. These are things that the staff has thought about over the years, and it is something that they’d like to try to do one day in a future Ys game.

You can’t say if it’ll be, for example, the next Ys game, but it is definitely something they want to challenge themselves to do. And also, it is something that they want to do, because as staff, they do want to depict Adol at a different stage of his life, and they think that would be an interesting thing to do, because it would open up the doors to depict an adventure that could only be done by virtue of the fact that Adol is older.

Miketendo64: Featuring a 17-year-old Adol, chronologically, where does Ys X: Nordics fall? After Ys II?

Toshihiro Kondo: So yes, this is an adventure, like you said, because Adol is 17, which means it’s directly after his adventures in Esteria. And so it takes place immediately after those adventures in Esteria, after Ys II.

Miketendo64: Who would win in a sword fight between Link from The Legend of Zelda, or Adol?

Toshihiro Kondo: I have no clue, I don’t know who would be stronger in that situation.

Miketendo64: If Nintendo ever asked Nihon Falcom to use one of your characters in a new Super Smash Bros. game, which character would you pick?

Toshihiro Kondo: Personally, I would definitely want it to be Adol. Adol, in comparison to other characters that are part of Nihon Falcom, Adol has been the main character for many different games, he’s been around for a long time. Unlike the Trails series, where every arc of the main character changes, Adol has been a consistent presence that probably a lot of people know, and he’s a very recognizable character.

So even, for example, if you were to think about, well, if we said Trails game, would it be Van? He’s like, I don’t necessarily think Van would be a good fit for those reasons. So, personally, I would love, if asked, if Adol would be included in the game.

Miketendo64: With Ys V yet to be localised in the west, has there been any conversation regarding a possible remaster to update the game and bring it to a new audience?

Toshihiro Kondo: We have always been thinking about remaking V. In fact, every single time we’re making a new Ys game, the topic comes up. “We’re making Ys VIII. Do we make Ys VIII or remake Ys V? IX, are we making Ys IX or remake Ys V? X, are we making Ys X or Ys V?”

The thing is, is that generally speaking, the staff themselves want to work on a brand new Ys title rather than remake, so it usually ends up this way. But, even in Japan, we know that lots of players would love to play a remake of the game, so it is something that’s definitely on their mind, that we will continue to agonize over every time we make a new game.

So, yes, and if we were to realize an Ys V remake, or, you know, if Ys XI comes out first, and we know that there’s lots of fans who love the Ys series out in the West, then of course we’d want to get into it.

Miketendo64: With Ys vs. Trails in the Sky: Alternative Saga releasing back in 2010, are there any plans for another Ys vs. Trails crossover, or potential remake now that both series have a larger audience?

Toshihiro Kondo: The company has said, you know, we should really try this again, this would be really good to do.

So, there is a desire even from the company itself to do this, and it would be great to do, because obviously, the rosters for both titles have greatly increased. You’ve got a ton of new characters that have come out in the Trails series, and there’s been tons of characters that have come out in Ys as well. So, the thing is that we are focused on kind of our main series at the moment, but if there is an opportunity someday to do that again, it would be something they would love to challenge themselves to do.

Miketendo64: Having previously given high praise to the Ys VIII novelisation, and said you wouldn’t be opposed to novelisations for Ys IX and Ys X, have there been any development in a set decision on what game to cover next?

Toshihiro Kondo: Yeah actually, as someone who wouldn’t call myself an English reader, I did do my best to make my way through the novelisation as best I can. At first, I thought the book was really cool, from the look of it, a good volume. Also, what I really appreciated, from the parts I could understand, I really appreciated how Dana’s inner self was depicted and how a lot of the things we couldn’t do in the game, were able to come out through the book. If there’s an opportunity to have a novelisation of IX or X, I would love for that to happen.

Miketendo64: When not running Nihon Falcom and developing new titles, do you get much spare time for gaming? Have you had a chance to play the likes of recent FINAL FANTASY games and Xenoblade Chronicles?

Toshihiro Kondo: You’re right, I don’t have a lot of time to play games nowadays. I haven’t played the Xenoblade Chronicles games, but I have played some of the more recent Final Fantasy games. Also, I generally do play the new Atlus games. That’s always a win.

Miketendo64: Thanks to your partnership with NIS America, together you have been great supporters of the Nintendo Switch system. Can we expect to see that partnership continue with Nintendo’s next console?

Toshihiro Kondo: Yes, absolutely, if there’s an opportunity for us to be able to create something for whatever Nintendo has for the future, we’d love to be able to work something out.

Miketendo64: Final question of the day, is there anything you would like to say, or any additional comments you would like to add, for our readers and your fans? The floor is yours.

Toshihiro Kondo: In the past, I don’t necessarily know Western fans didn’t have the opportunities to play our many of our titles, but I feel more in recent years thanks to publishing labels like NIS America, we have been able to bring out our games on a regular basis, and more and more people have begun to play our games, and it seems that they really like that.

And I know that for us, not only in the West, but a lot of other areas of the world, a lot of our games are getting more and more popular, and so we’re able to see our games enjoyed by a broader audience, and we as developers have now started to think more about our audience outside of Japan. We began to, as we make our games to think how would our audiences in these other places, in the West for example, take certain elements of these games?

So we’ve thought about them and added them into our thought process when it comes to game design and game development. And we’ve also, on the development side, have made it a little bit easier for our partners to localize the games into English. So this is something that I have really built for the company to be able to, on both fronts, bringing the games to the fans and thinking about those fans when we’re making the games, as well as having the games localized and being in an environment that’s easier to localize. These are things that we’ve put a lot of work into. And so what I would ask of our fans in the West is that please continue to play and enjoy our games and we will keep making them for you.

A huge thank you goes out to Toshihiro Kondo, Alan, NIS America, and Reef Entertainment for making this interview happen. It was our absolute pleasure and if you would love to know even more about Ys X: Nordics, why not check out our review?

About Ys X: Nordics:

Two heroes. One thrilling adventure. A boundless sea of discovery – Embark on a high seas adventure rich with action and exploration in Ys X: Nordics! Experience the perils of Obelia Gulf through the eyes of Adol Christin and his unexpected ally, the pirate Karja Balta, as they help save the people of the gulf from the mysterious immortal monsters known as the Griegr.